Dwight Evans = Jim Rice = Fred Lynn
Written by Joe Veno on July 3, 2009 – 8:42 AM -You know how sometimes we will just get the urgency to write? But really have no direction that we are going in? No intention to anywhere that is relevant?
Well, that is what I am going to attack, or address, whichever word you prefer. This is me with no statistics. Just going to address something that occupies my mind often.
And it is the Jim Rice, Fred Lynn, Dwight Evans debate that sometimes people view illogically.
Once again, I will state, that all three were basically equivalent offensively. All three had roughly the same OPS+. All three sort of cancel each other out in that regard.
But two are corner outfielders, meaning they can only impact the game so much. One being Jim Rice, who had the luxury of playing in a small left field, with a wall that he had an advantage in regards to the “visiting” defender.
So Rice impacted the game little on the defensive side of the ball. By all accounts, he wasn’t an atrocious defender, but was average, probably at best. While the other corner outfielder–Evans–had a rocket for an arm, and is known for his defensive prowess.
Then, there was a center fielder in Fred Lynn, that by sheer opportunity, could impact the game more. Last season, fly balls into the outfield, arrived in center field 47% of the time. I use this as a reference often, because it is so relevant I think that I just blew my own mind.
This percentage couldn’t have changed all that much going back to the late 70’s and through the 80’s. Meaning that Lynn simply had much more of a chance to put his “stamp” on the game than Rice or Lynn.
Now, quality of defense matters. It really does. Evans was notoriously known for being a great defender, Rice merely average at best) and Lynn as being, well, I don’t really know off the top of my head. But the fact that he could field the position for so long had plenty of value.
So three players, all outfielders, all with basically the same offensive numbers. Counting numbers a little different.
How does one make the Hall of Fame, while the other two get tossed to the side?
How?
Evans did things Rice could never dream of doing, while doing most of the things that Rice *could* do. Yet, Jim Rice is in the Hall.
It isn’t so much that I believe all three should be in the Hall. I actually prefer none of the three to be in the Hall, because I don’t deem them worthy. Although, nothing personal, for they all had really good careers, and excelled at their profession.
But I think I am growing semi-angry that Jim Rice is in the Hall of Fame, the more I look at the numbers of the Scott Rolen’s of the world, and the Chipper Jones’ I realize just how worthy Jim Rice is of being outside the Hall.
But again, nothing personal…
Tags: Chipper Jones, Dwight Evans, Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Scott RolenPosted in Boston Red Sox, Historical, Rants, Uncategorized | 6 Comments »
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 AM
wow, you write about fred lynn without even knowing that he was in his youth a wonderful cf? do you have access to the internet?
Some reasons people don’t realize how good Evans was are that 1) his obp skills were undervalued in his day, 2) he started his career with several mediocre to poor offensive years that established him in people’s mind as a decent but not great hitter, 3) physical problems and an unexpected inability to make the throw from 1b to second made his career end a little before he could pile up more numbers
Lynn in not in the HOF because he left Fenway.
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:56 AM
I was going to refer to his “FRAA” at BP, but I chose not to, because I committed to the “no statistics” part of my post. I actually wrote a piece comparing Evans to Rice over at the other site I write for.
Thanks for stopping by, Jim.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:45 PM
hey joe–i love it when you fly out on a little subjective tangent. going outside of your regular comfort zone is only going to help add a dimension to your regular stuff. nice piece. the rice issue is just one of many examples of guys that are in and then you look at really deserving guys that aren’t–blyleven come to mind always for me.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Yes! A comment! I am so bored
Rice opens the door for others, if voters allow, and it probably has watered the Hall down a tad. However, even though I am a believer in the numbers, that doesn’t necessarily make my opinion of this correct. It is simply the way I feel.
And yes, Blyleven has a very strong case.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:25 AM
i’ve been a poor reader
sorry–
i’ve been having a bit of baseball fun in new york. i’ve had my usual .667 Win % so i can’t really complain…though to be honest did you really thing Sabathia would lose to …vargas? as mariano would say-that’s baseball.
i’m off to DJ a gig over the weekend…so have a great 4th joe
July 9th, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Hey Joe, it’s true that Rice was no where near the fielder that Lynn and Evans were. Rice was average to above average in the field. Evans had one of the greatest outfield arms in the history of the game. Lynn was fast and very good at getting to fly balls and line drives (when he wasn’t running into walls). However, offensively neither was on par with Rice. Rice was unquestionably the best hitter in the AL for 3 years, and in the top 5 for several others. Lynn may have been in the top 5 one or two years, and Evans may have as well, but neither were ever the best in the league. What you also need to recognize is that both Lynn and Evans benefitted from Rice. Lynn batted in front of Rice in the beginning of his career. He had the best year of his career in 1979 because after the year that Rice had in 1978, no one was going to take a chance on walking Lynn. He got a steady diet of fastballs that year, and responded. Lynn didn’t lead the league in a single offensive category for the rest of his career after he left Boston, which was mainly due to the fact that he no longer had Rice batting behind him. Evans never led the league in a single offensive category until he started batting in front of Rice. Once Lynn left, Evans became a better player simply because he was batting third with Rice batting fourth. Now I realize that Lynn had some good seasons with the Angels, and Evans wasn’t only good because of Rice, but both had their best years when they were batting in front of him.
Sluggers who hit for high average were very rare in Rice’s day. Take a look at all the players who led their league HRs from 1975-1985. How many also batted over .300 in the same season? Not many. Lynn and Evans were nowhere near the sluggers that Rice was. Both got on base slightly more than Rice, but only because Rice couldn’t bat in front of himself. If Rice had walked 4 more times per year, his OBP would be equal to Lynn’s.
Take a look at black ink, gray ink, Hall of Fame Monitor. Rice fits very nicely with the other Hall of Famers. Lynn and Evans do not. Having watched them all play, Lynn and Evans were very good players, but not worthy of the HOF. Rice was very worthy.