Joe Morgan on Joe Mauer.
Written by Joe Veno on August 19, 2009 – 2:24 PM -I don’t want to beat the subject down anymore, as Joe Posnanski does that on a daily basis. But Joe Mauer hit two more homers, and had three more hits yesterday. One homer to straight away center, and the other to left center. He is batting .383, and he’s a catcher. Poz’s message board is scattered with people saying that up until now, this is probably the greatest season by a catcher of all time. An OPS+ north of 190, he’s a catcher, Slugging over .600, he’s a catcher. Well, you must get my point by now.
After all those numbers suggesting he is easily the MVP, we find out that Joe Morgan is off base again. In a chat yesterday, which I went back and read out of boredom, Joe Morgan said something I didn’t agree with (what a surprise). I don’t mean to bash the guy to simply bash him, but I felt that this was off base. Here’s what he said:
“I can’t call him the best player, because it’s hard for a catcher to be the best player. The reason I say that is that he’s not the best defensive catcher in the game and he doesn’t run as well as some of the other players. But he’s definitely the best catcher in the game. And he’s not better than Albert Pujols. However, Mauer is an unbelieveable talent. We’ve never had a catcher win a batting title before. Now he’s on to his, what?, 2nd or 3rd batting title? He is by far the best hitter in the league. But as an MVP, the Twins might finish 3rd or 4th in their division.”
So Joe can’t call Mauer the best player because he is a “catcher?” This is subjective once again. See, Morgan was the best player on a great Reds team that one two World Series rings in the mid-70’s. Yes, he was better than Johnny Bench. Joe was a great defender at an up-the-middle position, who stole a ton of bases, hit for power, got on base a bunch. He could very well be the best second baseman of all time.
So anyway, Morgan was better than Bench. He could do more on a baseball field, his career WARP1 is significantly higher. I seriously would not be surprised if this is where this all comes from. Morgan saw firsthand that he was better than his catcher. Result: This conclusion.
Maybe I am off base in this regard, but it wouldn’t be entirely unlikely.
“He doesn’t run as well as some of the other players.”
Okay, but just last season he was 2oth in base-running according to BP. Although this season, he isn’t even in the top 100. But he isn’t a poor base-runner by any means. He may not run as well as Jacoby Ellsbury, but that isn’t really what Joe Mauer does that makes him so valuable.
“We’ve never had a catcher win a batting title before. Now he’s on to his, what?, 2nd or 3rd batting title? He is by far the best hitter in the league. But as an MVP, the Twins might finish 3rd or 4th in their division.”
So he is by far the best hitter in the league? But he isn’t the best player because he is a catcher? Morgan doesn’t understand positional adjustment whatsoever. Joe Mauer is a catcher, he gets points for simply being able to be a catcher. Kind of like how Jeter or Hanley get points for simply being a SS. They field the position well enough to play it–although it may not be quality defense, they aren’t so horrendous that they absolutely must be moved off the position, like BJ Upton had to be. But Joe Mauer, by all accounts, and all that has been said, is actually a really good defensive catcher. He is a great athlete, and constantly has to work with young pitchers, and does pretty well at it, outside of this season. But again, that may not be Mauer’s fault at all. It may be the actual pitchers simply not faring well.
As for the MVP part of that quote? Well, that is Morgan’s opinion. I personally do not feel that a player should be excluded from an MVP award simply because the team around him is not supportive enough–at least in terms of performance. If Joe Mauer doesn’t have the supporting cast to make a playoff run, then how is that his fault?
It isn’t.
But I also understand that people’s definition of “value” differs. Although I may not agree with this, I do keep an open mind.
However, just to reiterate, Mauer is my MVP. So don’t think that I do not understand how little one player can impact a team, and how much is needed in order to surround said player.
“And he’s not better than Albert Pujols.”
Joe Morgan, you’ve done good. Although Mauer might very well be having the better season (It’s close), he may not be better than Albert. For Albert has been the best player in the game for years now, and knocking him off isn’t as simple as putting up a .383 batting average in less than a season. As great as Mauer is and has been, I will accept Pujols as the best player in baseball.
So Joe Morgan, Joe Mauer is the MVP. That is firm within my mind. Entrenched, one might say. There is still some season left to play, and what will happen is unknown. But a “catcher” is in fact the best player in the American League. And it isn’t far fetched to say that he’s the best in the game.
Tags: Albert Pujols, Cincinnati Reds, Derek Jeter, Hanley Ramirez, Joe Mauer, Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Minnesota TwinsPosted in Cincinnati Reds, Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins, Rants, Uncategorized | 10 Comments »
August 19th, 2009 at 3:59 PM
ok first of all he IS an amazing athlete and anyone who saw that play he made on gardner at yankee stadium this year can attest to that even if you never saw the guy before or since.
i’m one of those that believes the MVP probably should go to a guy that is able to get his team into the playoffs. but not this year. mauer should get every single 1st place vote. there can be no denying it.
very entertaining post though–unlike joe morgan or any of those morons at ESPN ( except tim kirkjian)
August 19th, 2009 at 4:39 PM
That play WAS an awesome play. One of the plays of the year.
You are a Kurkjian fan? I like his passion for baseball, but he and I use different numbers to define “greatness.” So while what he is saying, and the passion he displays is entertaining, I feel that too often he is using counting numbers too heavily.
…But that is just me…
August 20th, 2009 at 12:19 AM
Law is my favorite ESPN writer. Neyer is a close second. Probably because of my obsession with prospects.
August 20th, 2009 at 12:26 AM
Law is my favorite too.
August 20th, 2009 at 3:01 AM
Really? I figured you’d like Neyer better. I mean, Law is great at what he does, but most of what he does is scouting and the analysis thereof. Neyer is the statistical analysis god. Law incorporates some of that stuff into his work, but Neyer is the king of it. They both have great heads on their shoulders, but I always assume people who aren’t obsessed with prospects like Neyer better than Law. Though they’re both awesome.
August 20th, 2009 at 9:21 AM
I am baffled by anyone who could not think that Mauer should be the MVP this year. Mauer would have strong consideration if he put up his numbers as a DH on a last place team. Putting up those numbers as a good defensive catcher on a team that is still in a pennant race (especially when you consider that the Twins have underperformed their expected W-L and the Tigers have overperformed) makes him a no-brainer. He leads the league in all three slash stats and has more HR per at bat than Mark Teixeira. Just look at the lead he has over second place in each of the slash stats: 16 points in batting average, 24 points in OBP and 74 points in SLG. Take any team in the majors and replace their catcher with Joe Mauer and you have just vastly improved that team.
August 20th, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Peter,
Law offers the only scouting perspective on ESPN, that is why I prefer him. I kind of like Neyer, but Law mixes stats with scouting, my preference
August 20th, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Pinstripe Pride,
Objective? I like it.
And agreed. Mauer could be the “slash Triple Crown” winner. Quite an accomplishment in the statistical community. Thanks for pointing that out, as I was unaware.
August 20th, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Come on, Joe, don’t you know by now? Morgan is an idiot. The vitriol that comes out of his mouth is a shameful way to cover up an otherwise great playing career.
August 20th, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Yes, but it inspired a blog post
And any inspiration I can get, I will gladly take.